Entre Tiburones y Propósito - La Historia de un Biólogo Venezolano que Convirtió Datos en Acción - Leonardo Sanchez : 182

 ¿Qué pasa cuando decides seguir tu vocación… incluso cuando otros esperan que elijas otro camino?

En el caso de Leonardo, esa decisión lo llevó a dedicar su vida a proteger a los tiburones, especies que influyen en el océano mucho más de lo que imaginamos. Y cuando entiendes su papel, empiezas a ver por qué protegerlos es proteger nuestro propio futuro.

En este episodio conversamos con Leonardo Sánchez, biólogo venezolano y director del Centro para la Investigación de Tiburones de Venezuela (CIT), con más de 20 años dedicados a la protección de estas especies en el Caribe.

Leonardo comparte la historia profundamente humana detrás de su vocación: cómo decidió seguir la biología a pesar de la presión familiar y cómo encontró en el océano un propósito de vida.

Hablamos sobre la conservación de los tiburones en Venezuela y el Caribe con ejemplos reales: cómo se identifican áreas de crianza, por qué es clave seguir la migración del tiburón ballena y por qué sus poblaciones pueden colapsar tan rápido.

También exploramos soluciones que sí funcionan: proyectos con pescadores, ecoturismo responsable y programas que convierten al pez león invasor en alimento y oportunidad económica.

Si te interesa la salud de los océanos, la pesca sostenible o el futuro del planeta, este episodio te mostrará lo que está en riesgo… y lo que todavía podemos cambiar.

Transcript

DanielaSm 0:34

My invitation of hoy is Leonardo Sánchez, biological venezolanists and director of the Centre for the Investigation of Tiburones in Venezuela, with more than 20 years dedicated to the conservation of these species in the Caribe. Disfrutemos of your story. I'm super content that you are here finally for my history very interesting.

Leonardo Sanchez 1:00

Thank you, for the patience, for example, I'm super content to be here. Much of it.

DanielaSm 1:07

Well, Leonardo, you're in Venezuela, in San Antonio de los Altos. There's much to hear. I did my primary Alejandro who had a charge about Tiburones and it was impressionable. I said,

Childhood Spark And Family Pressure

DanielaSm 1:20

I want to say, I want to say, I want to approach it.

Leonardo Sanchez 1:26

I think the historians, of the historians of conservation, can inspire other people. I think the principal that they are is inspiring others, sometimes you're the possibility that they have to have a life, to have a carrier, to learn those things, it's what I inspire, and dedicate to protect the naturality is one of the carriers, of the professional spectacular that would exist. But when you have my story, you study biology, study engineer, and study engineering, but not what I did. But the pressure family study, and when you are no, but this is a important, this is for doing classes, the professors have more, it's good. If you study or something with the animals, but you have to have a engineer. And in Venezuela, there have been many opportunities for the engineers in the industry petrol. It was difficult to transition, but finally when I had a little bit more independence that I was, I studied biology. But really, my family was to the market. For my mother was capital of the car, and my mother, my wife, who I was, was a man, had much language in the land of Maracaibo and the industry. She had this necessity to be, to work in the mar, it was something that during my younger I was.

DanielaSm 3:20

What is this? Because San Antonio de los Salt is always.

Leonardo Sanchez 3:23

No, no, no, no. I had many years in San Antonio de los Altos. I was studying my doctor in Ivy, and I'm here. But really, I was like, when I was young, my friends were mission in a religion, and I visited much for Venezuela. We started to Maracaibo, Barquisimet, Cabudare, Guanari, Carigua, and then Maracaibo. So it was a very, and I was of me that probably had those passions, but I mean the religion was.

Faith Doubt And Choosing Academia

DanielaSm 4:08

What was it? In what I was saying that it was.

Leonardo Sanchez 4:11

I think I think I'm very happy I did that, really, I mean the attention. Not that I was at things that I was, not meant. But in this moment, I had a pressure, because in this religion they don't the academia and the cars and professional not so important, so it's much more important to dedicate inherent to the religion. So I was at the house, I said, Okay, let's go, but I'm in a large in the interior of the place, and I'm a Maracaibo or Caracas or another to study in a one university. And when I go to a family that is of the same religion. Because now they're and they carry it, I don't know what I had to escape a one day, I didn't. And I was and I was with my family, and I'm at my ancient much more professional.

DanielaSm 5:25

Wow, I imagine that this has been an escandaloous. Yeah, and have friends who were rebelding like you.

Leonardo Sanchez 5:33

No, I also have another and okay, okay.

DanielaSm 5:37

But it's interesting that my spirit, and he after 12 years, that this was for him. You know, that's a gen of the people or that they don't have it. It's fascinating that we went to my story in this aspect. No, the important is generally the critical, that all that you say, that you think many times that they investigates, that's all I think.

Leonardo Sanchez 6:30

In this moment of transition that was both, I was a monseign. And we're going to see this thing, and one day I said, The more Christian who I connect is an ate, a Christian who all the laws of Christians. And the Christian. And he referred to one of his colleagues. And he said, One day I had a monster who was with his disciples, of the life, you know. So I went to a peregrine and maestro, I have a great idea, I have something that I torment all the time, and it's if he exists. And like you were so savvy, I should say whether he exists. And the monster and no, they exist. And the monster went and said, They exist. At the end of the day, one person torment, I don't know, and I should say, They exist. And I went and said, Well, this will defend you. In the night I went to we were very confused, but they wanted requests different to one to different people. So I said, those people, those absolutely those, in a whole moment of life, one for the caminal of the negation, others for the caminal of the acceptability, and most for the caminal of the doubt. And so the Monsignor said, No te preocupes, the arrogant, no season, decide that the life is a response if it's too much.

Joining Venezuela’s Shark Research Centre

DanielaSm 9:00

But when you graduated, biological marine, this was what you study. Okay.

Leonardo Sanchez 9:10

And the speciality was of students, of publications, of the areas in which one decided to dedicate, you know.

DanielaSm 9:19

But what I graduated?

Leonardo Sanchez 9:21

Another graduate, I was in the Center for the Investigation of Tiburons in the 2005, I decided to work here. I was volunteer, I was like student, and now I'm director.

DanielaSm 9:36

Ah, but how did it occur this?

Leonardo Sanchez 9:40

The Central for the Investigación de Tiburones had been founded one year by who was my tutor, Rafael Tavara. And he was the only person in Venezuela who studying the tiburones in the rockets, in the Foundation Scientific. And he commented to study with much sacrificial, you know. And what he was that the people who captured the pescadores on redesigns, it was a nylon, the nylon of pests, and anime for seeing how it moves in the lagoon in Sebastopol and the Laguna Central Rock. And then his studies. But he was a super rare, that was anything, that was in a Harley Davidson and I was with anything, and that was a super gruyous. I never had a Cumaná in my life. I went to Cumaná and telephone, I was in the university. And I was matching immediately. Yeah, because I should study the tiburones and we have a relation of professional after the moment. But we were escalating. The SIT was conformed by many people, they were an organization bastard, bastard in the sense that there were many people involved. No, we had many students, we were to form 160 people contact and certificate for tiburones at capacity that we were in alliance with universities, the University of Zulia, the University of Orient, the University Central, for sure.

Turning Research Into Conservation Action

Leonardo Sanchez 12:24

But result that we did in the process that we have much information, my tutor is a scientific of very old name. All this information that was generating, no stuff doing nothing with this information. Yo tomé las riendas del SIT y comenzamos a tomar acciones de conservación. Esas acciones involucran a las comunidades, involucran a los jóvenes, involucran a los pescadores, and we are in a position bastante buena inquieta de la conservación de los tiburones in Caribe.

DanielaSm 13:14

What objective had the tiburones?

Leonardo Sanchez 13:18

No, we were absolutely nothing of the tiburones, nothing. Quality information that generated was important. These areas of crisis are zones where the tiburones were at their críis, and these passing the great months or years of life.

Shark Nurseries And Los Roques

DanielaSm 14:08

And it is parecida to the ballenas, for example, you in Canada, the ballas are the Caribe or the part of Mexico to produce and the tiburones.

Leonardo Sanchez 14:28

They are important of tiburones that we have in Venezuela, in the world.

DanielaSm 14:34

Is it Venezuela, in the Tiburón Bayena?

Leonardo Sanchez 14:36

The Tiburon ballena is of all the mares. In what they were ubicated, and aspects like the areas of cría that I would like to comment here, not absolutely nothing. And much more about the conservation. In Venezuela, we have the tiburones to have empanadas de cazon, which are arraigated to our culture culinary. It's very difficult for us to have to come casson, but we need to have to come canson because now the species of tiburones are super amenaz. So after no matter actions for the conservation, we recommend that no consuming empanadas de cazon, because we don't know. Tiburones adult don't consume because the carne is fibrosi, it has more. De hecho hay especies que desaparecieron

Cazon Consumption And Shark Finning

Leonardo Sanchez 17:20

por completo. Y estoy hablando de 15 años.

DanielaSm 17:22

O sea, en Venezuela se comió mucho el cazón. Hay otras países también que hacen esto o solo era en Venezuela?

Leonardo Sanchez 17:28

Sí, in general in todo el mundo se consume. In the caso de Asia, no consumen la carne, sino que consumen principalmente las aletas.

DanielaSm 17:36

Ah, es verdad, verdad.

Leonardo Sanchez 17:38

Y es un tema solo cultural. Las aletas de tiburón no tienen sabor, no tienen ninguna propiedad medicinal, no son afrodisíacas, no curan el cáncer, están por el contrario destruyendo todas las especies de tiburones en el mundo y destruyendo un recurso alimentario, porque al final también los tiburones son aprovechados y nosotros no estamos en contra del aprovechamiento de los tiburones. Pero que ese aprovechamiento sea sostenible, que sea un aprovechamiento que tenga sentido, no que acabemos con las poblaciones y extingamos a las poblaciones. No es que porque los tiburones sean bonitos, o que no, bueno, es que a mí me gustan los tiburones, no. Es que los tiburones cumplen un papel fundamental dentro de los ecosistemas marinos. And if we sacamos a los tiburones de esos ecosistemas, el ecosistema se cae. It's como el jueguito este de los ladrillitos que uno empieza a sacar bloquecitos and bloquecitos y bloquecitos afinal that alguien sacan el bloquecito que no es andar abajo del edificio. ¿Cuál es el role de los tiburones? But one of the most important is the equilibrium of the poblaciones of the queen aliment. Los tiburones are like those médics of the ecosystem. When the pandemic, uso ese ejemplo porque es más fácil para que todos los entendamos, la pandemia aislábamos a las personas que estaban enfermas, ¿no? El que estaba contagiado se aislava para evitar que la enfermedad contagiara al resto de la población. Los tiburones in the ecosystem is comerse al pez que está enfermo. Es el más débil, it's el enfermo. Ellos tienen un sistema inmunológico spectacular. Evitan que ese animal enfermo disemine las enfermedades in el resto de la population. The other thing that they have is that they coming to lose. And evidence that esos genes, which are the mean, insert dentro of the population. Because if the tiburones no stay, it will reproduce. And those genes that are defectual entrance at the population and produce descendants with genes deteriorated. But they're other papers in the mesodepredadores. Ellos van aumentar la presión sobre los herbívoros, por ejemplo. Entonces van a acabar con todos los herbívoros porque ellos son muchos y necesitan comer. Entonces, van a disminuir las poblaciones de herbívoros. Entonces se rompe el equilibrio. Pueden llegar a extinguir a los peces herbívoros, porque en el medio no hubo quien los controlara a ellos, porque los tiburones están acá arriba. Eso es algo que se conoce como equilibrio top-down in the ecosystem. Son extremadamente necessarias. De hecho, hay pruebas scientificas that mostrat that in 50 años of peces more sanity collapse for complete to eliminate the tiburones of the ecosystem.

Sharks As Ecosystem Health Keepers

DanielaSm 20:41

What they made for convenience, or enseñarles, or curiosity of that they appreciate them, because they have this image of the tiburone that comes to the gentleman, and the tiburone is small.

Leonardo Sanchez 20:53

One of the biggest things that happen with the tiburones is their reputation. The reputation of the tiburones is terrible and it is injustice. And the command, the person.

DanielaSm 22:21

Ah, okay, claro, no tiene patas. I entiendo.

Leonardo Sanchez 22:23

No, no tiene patas, no has hecho de manera delicada. There's a video very famous that circulated both of the years of a tiburone blanket mording a dinghy, okay, a bote that is of aire. And it's that the tiburón looks like a lentit impression. Claro, it had rato con los buzzos. They had an operation where they have pollo, pollo, pellez of pollo at the tiburones. Entonces the tiburón simplemente command, and they are haciendo like what they said was a mínima llamada de attention. Entonces la gente, mira, el tiburón está bom el bote para comérselos a todos. Eso no es lo que pasa. Nosotros somos parte de la dieta de los tiburones y no somos palatables. Si bien han ocurrido accidentes, hay menos de 10 personas que mueren a causa de los tiburones en el mundo. Mientras que es sorprendente las estadísticas, pero hay hasta 150.000 personas en el mundo que mueren por ataques de perros domésticas. Los tiburones no son una amenaza para los seres humanos, definitivamente.

Shark Myths And Real World Risk

Leonardo Sanchez 23:28

En el caso de los pescadores, es una de las mejores tareas que nos ha tocado hacer. Realmente, el trabajo con las comunidades es maravilloso. Es maravilloso porque, primero, nos permite entender cuál es la realidad en la que esas personas viven, entender cuáles son sus necesidades. El ser pescador es un oficio muy duro, muy difícil. Ellos pasan a veces días en el mar, en unas canoas que uno no se lo puede creer. O sea, de verdad ustedes duermen encima de esa tabla, dos ores seguidas. Andy. Y se meten en el agua y se van al bote y duermen mojados y duermen in condiciones terribles, and the pesca is super difficult. Lo hacen a mano, suben, levantan las redes a mano y van sacando todo lo que viene en la red, a veces es mucho, a veces es poco, a veces es nada. It's very difficult the trabajo del pescador. Andemos recordar que los pescadores alimentan a todas las personas en la ciudad. The pescador no pescado. The mayor of the pescado que él pesca is para venderlo. There is something that we have applicated in the Centre for Investigación of the Tiburones, which is the theory of cambious. It's necessary that the niños crezcan y coman pescado, que todos comamos pescado por lo menos una vez a la semana.

DanielaSm 25:31

Me imagino que necesitas el pescador así como necesitas el tiburón.

Leonardo Sanchez 25:34

Claro, and we necesitamos a los pescadores, pero los pescadores necesitan comer. Necesitamos ofrecerles medios de vida alternativos para que ellos tengan también otra fuente de ingreso. Pero esa fuente de ingresos la obtienen ahora de tiburones vivos en lugar de tiburones muertos. Y lo que hicimos fue basicamente una alianza entre buzos, buzos recreativos, que disfrutan del mar, que quieren ir al mar a ver lugares espectaculares, y estamos en el Caribe, hay puntos de buceo espectaculares en el Caribe, arrecifes de coral maravillosos, con colores impresionantes, con una diversidad única, única. O sea, el Caribe para bucear es de los mejores sitios del mundo. Y nosotros tenemos un Caribe espectacular, un Caribe bastante conservado, lugares maravillosos. Pero esos lugares maravillosos los conocen los pescadores, más que los usos. Entonces, hicimos una alianza estratégica entre los pescadores y los usos. Andora, pescadores están teniendo ingresos a partir de ofrecer turismo a los usos para llevarlos a lugares de buceo en los que ellos van a encontrar allí bellezas paradisíacas andas tiburones vivos. Entonces, por supuesto, los pescadores de adecuation, tanto oficial, como de la capacitada que le damos a los pescadores, desde cómo prestar a buen servicio of turismo, cómo attending, what medidas often, are certificated to ejerce this operation. The buceo is a deport of ries control, but it has ries. And this is very felicity. No species are amenaced, no species in pain.

Fishers Dive Tourism And New Income

DanielaSm 28:56

Yes, it's a pez parecido in the carne and all this.

Leonardo Sanchez 29:06

The pez león is venenoso, there's two spinach venenous in the torso. Explain, did we have tallers in the community, they enseñamos what is the part that is venenoosa, because it's super dolorosa, the pinchada that the pez león. But the carne is venenoosa, simply this venenosa is one of the spinach dorsales that they use as a mechanism of defense. Y eso va más dirigido a las esposas de los pescadores. Hay muchas de ellas que también son pescadoras, hay mujeres que pescan junto con sus esposos, mujeres impresionantes, pero muchas otras son amas de casa, entonces las amas de casa pueden percibir ingresos a partir de la preparación de estos alimentos. Entonces, ¿qué hacemos? Es como un pez que come. Los buzos, que normalmente llevan a Hawaiana para matar especies león, porque es uno de los buceo con propósito, hay que extraer esos animalitos de ahí porque se comen a las especies nativas y son voraces. Entonces, bueno, los sacan y normalmente a veces uno los mata y los deja porque no hay como prepararlo. Si uno está buceando, no vas a llevar cosas para cocinarlo. Entonces, los traen ahora, and the señoras preparan, les quitan, les decimos los implementos para que lo hicieran andan ceviches de pezleón, y es una cosa divina, deliciosa.

DanielaSm 30:37

And it's possible erradicarlo, it's impossible erradically.

Leonardo Sanchez 30:42

Uh, when you're invasor, okay, when we receive this título de especie invasora, ya no podemos erradicarla, it's impossible. But then we can control it for that negative season, sometimes in the cities of buceous, which are sitios paradisíaca. Ellos pueden desierto in the puntos de buceo, el pez león, in puntos that solarly ellos. And they coming into ellos. But they are voraces, entertainment extra of those sites for the fauna autóctona, because ellos comes to the world, a loss of the other peace. And then this, but not this, and the people who are the pescador, and it's complex. So, at the point of view of the psychology, the comportation is very complex, because they live a lot that imported. There's a pattern psychological in the people who live a lot difficult, a lot of people. In the casual pescadores también, and the sufrimiento que provocan in this caso es hacia la naturaleza, hacia los animales. Nosotros no estamos en contra de eso. Solo queremos que las populations recuperen and the malas practicas ofrecticas of administrativas ofrecer have provocated this crisis in this moment. It's riquish. Any gusta comerlo, me encanta la empanada de cazón, but we have to be conscientious. ¿Y cuántos años tardó en que pasara esta situación y cuántos años tardará para que se arregle?

Lionfish Control And Community Cooking

Leonardo Sanchez 33:17

No podemos saber exactamente. Y menos si no estamos tomando acciones. Porque no hay acciones gubernamentales efectivas para manejar esos recursos. Las acciones que estamos tomando las estamos tomando nosotros como iniciativa desde la ciudadanía, desde los científicos junto con las comunidades. Pero no hay un accionar desde los administradores del recurso para tomar medidas que sean efectivas. O sea, bueno, no se permite la pesquería de tiburones en los roques porque es un área de cría. Y eso fue participando del Centro para la Investigación de Tiburones. But they're in the papel, but they siguen matando. Los roques están llenos de gente. El parque soportaba 750 people, and they're cute. But much more of this, much of the double of this canticity. Yes, important are the tiburones, the point that one line a lasadas and lasadas ofrecen como desayuno y como almuerzo, pabellón margariteño, pabellón oriental, que es hecho con cazón, y emparadas de cazón, y pastel de chucho. Es mucho todavía lo que necesitamos trabajar para poder proteger nuestros ecosistemas marinos, que son importantes para nuestro mismo mantenimiento, no solamente para que pobres sitios que no se acaben, no, sino que incluso si lo queremos ver desde un punto de vista antropocéntrico, egoísta, necesitamos protegerlo por nuestra propia supervivencia.

DanielaSm 34:33

Sí, eso suena muy frustrante. Yo, bueno, yo tengo muchos años fuera de Venezuela, pero sé que los rocos pensaban que era un parque national.

Leonardo Sanchez 34:41

Y sí, nosotros hemos tratado de aprender mucho sobre esos things social and enter the society, porque el problema is allí, entonces cómo hacemos para cambiarla, cómo intervenir. RARE, ¿no? R A R es una of the organization antiguo del mundo, in the natural. Ellos están tratando de comprender cómo intervenir in this society and that they produce cambios, cierto, no. The other day we have indígenas de allá de Canadá. And this is important because they can try to enterlos, respetarlos, and the things cambien. But with the indigenous, I mean me parece todavía hasta más fácil, porque ellos tienen una conciencia natural sobre la naturaleza, ¿no? Ellos tienen una buena relation with the naturale. Normally, the cultural indigenous have a good relation with the naturale because they depend on ella, they comprend them. But we in the city no, because in the city is a man.

Speaker 2 35:46

It's fascinating.

Leonardo Sanchez 35:47

It's in a congelation, it's in a supermercado, it is.

DanielaSm 35:57

But no, the solution, I escuched, that's when we empire with the kids, enjoying the kids. Okay.

Leonardo Sanchez 36:15

And we have to create the kids and convert them in defensories of the natural, and convert them in gentlemen different, romper the patrons of their family, patrons of exploitation of their family. The most important thing that we have in the society is with the kids, principally with the kids. Activities always sencill like pint with an artist

Weak Enforcement And Cultural Change

Leonardo Sanchez 36:37

very well, they could ensech to pint them for pinting tiburones, magatis, and delfines, toninos. And this mark for the life. And they live to the toninas in the lag, or the ballenas in the mar. And they can see that. There are people very brilliant in Latin America, but they are very scarce. It's an initiative of a venezolan. We have classes in many, most of 200 people. And now there are people who were not kids. There are people who in their life have been the mar and they graduate from bachiller. And we have to grab different people, among people, very marks that they said what you said to people who never. What about a person who has conversated the mar?

DanielaSm 38:33

What I did are solar, because the solar rompes, the arena. Men's malware in Vancouver than I have mar because I don't know that I was extra if you don't be here, and for me this is one of the things more relajante that there are in the world. You adoro the play, in the center, no. A me gusta la orillita. That's me.

Leonardo Sanchez 38:57

Well, these graphs put the kids and the people. A lot of people listen to the kids and the people who are content with the mar. Dedicar to have things for the natural and for others have a satisfaction tan but the world does dedicate to this. Those ayudding people and the naturale, because the crecimiento personality that we obtain of this is incredible. The quantity of a professor who has 98 years and me said, Scream, because if you screw it, you will be able to do it. I think that it will be, because I have much of the stories that I've had in my life. And every day we have.

DanielaSm 40:13

It's right that the people and such, and at the moment, it's like in a way of displaying, and this is.

Why Sharks Recover So Slowly

Leonardo Sanchez 44:12

In the caso de los peces óseos, they can reproduce an a year. Uh would produce millions of descendants at the air. The tiburones a lot of two años to produce a cría. For example, in the case of a species of raya mogula tarapacana, produce one cría e two years. The tiburones have various types of strategies, those are waves, but others are vivíparos placentarios, and others are vivíparos aplacentarios, which significa that are what they are like ovovivíparos, o sea that they have waves, but they're not, and others are vivid, like if it were mammifers, which aliment along the cordon umbilical. The production of the great volumes of exemplars because they reproduce a lot. And for sure, if there are depreds top, there wouldn't have demo depreders, because if there are demo, the rest of these presents. So there's an equilibrium. So imagine 400 million modeling those ecosystems, Maria.

DanielaSm 45:37

And for you, what much is? Ya existed, is super content with what you're saying, is the director of this organization, has an issue who is, I imagine it's a little bit of tiburones and delphines, because my mother is in this moment.

Leonardo Sanchez 45:53

I've been in the mark, I've been in laggers, I have riches, my wife with delfines in the river, and carrying delfines, our experience are this new generation that feels different, and I'm sure it's sure that it's what I do the day that I'm disfruiting much of this. And it would be that the actions are very big compared to the monster with which I can luther for that things in the humanity. But I think that there's that today there's time and that we have to get advanced to know that this needs to be a world more.

DanielaSm 46:41

I feel curious to see my papers what they were when they were all exit.

Safety Respect And Closing Thanks

Leonardo Sanchez 47:05

Much of it. One started in a row and I started, and I was with instructors of buse. When they were on the and they were very profound, and I was in the free, I perfect, I was with instructors of the moment I did that I was so completely sick with them that are imprecibles, they have to take care of it. And when I got my computer, actually they had iron and it was super big, and all of the things. But unfortunately nothing, but one of the things. And still I can recognize that the tiburones are animals silvestres, we are the who are racius and we have to take care of them, be prudent. She should have been prudent. The many of the accidents that occur with tiburones are for culpa of the people.

DanielaSm 48:15

Well, Leonardo, and inspiration that I'm a person very special, of course.

Leonardo Sanchez 48:30

Muchas gracias, and sir for inspiration. Much for the invitation, we encourage.

DanielaSm 49:13

Gracias por escuchar. Hasta luego.